H-100 needs some growl

[Stanislao]

My 1969 H-182, unaffectionately named The Pig, has quite a nice clean sound. The kind of unoffensive church sound that makes grandma hum along. I, however, seek more rock and progressive growl that makes grandma run and hide. The sound Lachy Doley produces is quite to my linking.



Is there any way to get the internal sound system? I'd prefer to not blow out my windows and eardrums, but some sacrifices can be made. Were we dealing with a guitar amplifier I would simply crank the preamp and roll back the post amp, but that does not appear to be an option with the H-100's god-awful complicated amplifier suit. I am willing to and in fact planning on, installing an effects loop as soon as I figure out how. My little 600 square foot home does not have space for a Leslie, but I already have a guitar amp lying around.

[indianajo]

tHE h100 HAS AN EFFECTS LOOP. iT IS CALLED THE REBERB. LEVELS ARE ABOUT 7 VAC OUT AND 25 MV BACK IN. tHE WIRING IS ALREADY THERE TO SPLIT THE EFFECT BETWEEN THE THREE AMPS. YOU'LL HAVE TO PAD DOWN THE OUTPUT TO 2VAC FOR A STANDARD RACK EFFECT, AND BYPASS THE EF86 BOOST CIRCUIT GOING BACK IN. A PAD IS A 1K POT WITH INPUT AND GROUND ON OUTER PINS AND OUTPUT FROM THE MIDDLE AND GROUND. THE RCA JACKS ARE THE OUTPUT AND INPUT TO THE TANK. SCHEMATIC IS ON ARCHIVE.ORG BUT THE CAPTAIN-FOLDBACK ONE IS LESS FUZZY. MEASURE OUTPUT WITH AN ANALOG VOM LIKE THE GC UNIT AT HARDWARE STORES. I HAVE A DIGITEK QUAD 4 EFFECT WITH BAD PS CAPS IN MY FUTURE TO EXPERIMENT WITH, BUT AM HAVING TOO MUCH FUN LEARNING SONGS TO SLOW DOWN & SOLDER AGAIN. 400 EFFECTS IN THAT BOX.
HAVE YOU REPLACED THE ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS? H100 ARE VERY POLITE PUTTING OUT 3 WATTS WITH NOTHING OUTSIDE 200-2000 HZ. IF YOU PUT THE LOUD PEDAL DOWN THEY SHOULD PRODUCE 56 WATTS WITH 65-7000 HZ. START AT THE POWER SUPPLY AND WORK OVER TO THE POWER AMP THEN UP TO THE PEDAL PERC UNIT,THEN THE PREAMPS. DON'T NEGLECT THE CATHODE BYPASS CAPS. THEY CUT BASS MASSIVELY WHEN LEAKY AND BURN THE TUBE PLATES. SEE THIS THREAD ABOUT CUTTING THE COST TO <$100 WITH RADIAL LEAD CAPS. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes...ube-amp-3.html
9574 WILL RATTLE THE CHANDELIER NOW. THERE IS A ELECTRIC PIANO IMITATION IF YOU MALADJUST THE GLOCK, AND I'M THINKING OF PUTTING PERC ENVELOPE ON THE LM FOR THE GUITAR RHYTHM LINES I PLAY DOWN THERE. AM MONKEYING WITH THET CALL ME DA BREEZE & FREE BIRD INTRO FROM SKYNYRD - STRING BASS PEDALS ARE GREAT ON ROCK BASS LINE. THREE LINES AT ONCE WHO NEEDS A BAND? ALL THAT WEED &BEER STINKING UPMY HOUSE? JUST A DRUMMER ON INNA GODDA DIVIDA OR RAMBLIN GAMBLIN MAN,
I TESTED MY #9574 AFTER EVERY COUPLE OF CAPS AND COUD HEAR THE IMPROVEMENT AS I WENT. I STILL HAVE THE HARP TO DO. BUT IT IS CAUSING A WHISTLE SO I'M NOT RECORDING YET. JUST BOUGHT A SECOND GOOD MIKE & NOW I'M LIMITED TO 1 HAND TIL MAY31. @!#$%^
WHEN MY TUBE HIFI AMP GOT POLITE I HAD TO REPLACE THE E-CAPS 4 TIMES SINCE 1970. 3000 HOUR SERVICE LIFE CAPS AVAILABLE NOW SHOULD LAST LONGER THAN TV STORE **** GRADE. THE LITTLE ONES CAN BE HAD IN 10000 HOU LIFE 105 DEG c RATING.
HAVE FUN.

[Wes]

I know you just had arm surgery, Jo - but no caps is better than all-caps. All caps is really hard to read.

[RogerRabbit]

The h100 has an effects loop. It is called the reberb. Levels are about 7 vac out and 25 mv back in. The wiring is already there to split the effect between the three amps. You'll have to pad down the output to 2vac for a standard rack effect, and bypass the ef86 boost circuit going back in. A pad is a 1k pot with input and ground on outer pins and output from the middle and ground. The rca jacks are the output and input to the tank. Schematic is on archive.org but the captain-foldback one is less fuzzy. Measure output with an analog vom like the gc unit at hardware stores. I Have a digitek quad 4 effect with bad ps caps in my future to experiment with, but am having too much fun learning songs to slow down & solder again. 400 effects in that box. Have you replaced the electrolytic capacitors? H100 are very polite putting out 3 watts with nothing outside 200-2000 hz. If you put the loud pedal down they should produce 56 watts with 65-7000 hz. Start at the power supply and work over to the power amp then up to the pedal perc unit,then the preamps. Don't neglect the cathode bypass caps. They cut bass massively when leaky and burn the tube plates. See this thread about cutting the cost to <$100 with radial lead caps. Http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes...ube-amp-3.html
9574 will rattle the chandelier now. There is a electric piano imitation if you maladjust the glock, and i'm thinking of putting perc envelope on the lm for the guitar rhythm lines i play down there. Am monkeying with thet call me da breeze & free bird intro from skynyrd - string bass pedals are great on rock bass line. Three lines at once who needs a band? All that weed &beer stinking upmy house? Just a drummer on inna godda divida or ramblin gamblin man,
I tested my #9574 after every couple of caps and coud hear the improvement as i went. I Still have the harp to do. But it is causing a whistle so i'm not recording yet. Just bought a second good mike & now i'm limited to 1 hand til may31. @!#$%^
When my tube hifi amp got polite i had to replace the e-caps 4 times since 1970. 3000 hour service life caps available now should last longer than tv store **** grade. The little ones can be had in 10000 hou life 105 deg c rating.
Have fun.

fixed it :)

[picothinker]

And perhaps a pair of line-feeds every once in a while. Take it easy on your arm, Indy, we need both of them!

[Sweet Pete]

With indyjo isn't it always about the caps? Take care of that arm there buddy! Call Me Da Breeze is actually a JJ Cale song.

[Stanislao]

The capacitors are fine, most of them are film type already. There is a blown KT-66 in the bass amp, which is probably half my problem.

Have you actually used the reverb as an effects loop? Seems like the effects would only affect the reverb signal. That's not something I want, I'd rather have a full wet signal.

[BaconByte]

The capacitors are fine, most of them are film type already. There is a blown KT-66 in the bass amp, which is probably half my problem.

Have you actually used the reverb as an effects loop? Seems like the effects would only affect the reverb signal. That's not something I want, I'd rather have a full wet signal.

If you ran through the reverb it would only effect one channel. I was looking at putting a loop on my H before I sent it out the door but it got a little more convoluted the more I went into it. My idea was taking signal right before it goes into the main and echo switches. However its still two channels not one just like if you ran it through the reverb. I was also thinking of taking the output from the tone cabinet socket and mixing it into one channel and running it to an external amp but I did not have an external amp at the time.

And the bass amp in your H has KT66s? They should be 7591s but I've heard of people modifying the bass amps for other tubes since today 7591s are uncommon.

[Stanislao]

Just checked, they're 7591s. No idea why I thought they were KT66s.

Is there a way of putting an effects loop in before the signal even gets to the amp? Or is everything combined inside the amp?

[BaconByte]

Just checked, they're 7591s. No idea why I thought they were KT66s.

Is there a way of putting an effects loop in before the signal even gets to the amp? Or is everything combined inside the amp?

According to the schematics there is never a time where the organ has just one channel.
(Never mind the green highlights. They were for some modifications which I never tried but intended eventually)

http://www.keyboardpartner.de/hammon...h-100_full.jpg

[Stanislao]

Perhaps doing a loop for the upper manual only? Intercept the signal right out of the manual, before it gets to the vibrato switch.

Still trying to figure out a way to rig a line out. Might just grab an M3 to fiddle with and ditch The Pig for a theater organ.

[indianajo]

The capacitors are fine, most of them are film type already. There is a blown KT-66 in the bass amp, which is probably half my problem.

l.

You're lliving in la-la land. You got the $20000 version of the H100 with plastic caps & KT66 outputs?
Even now a film 50 uf 450 v cap is the size of a beer can & $14. See these http://www.newark.com/genteq/97f5211.../13M4398/false
which I used in #9574. I had to install a separate chassis for them.
In 1967 a plastic cap like that would have been the size of a 1 liter pop bottle and cost $100.
Even the 10 uf plastic caps I used in the preamps wouldn't fit under cover in some places & I used $5 ceramic disk caps instead.
Your H100 will have film tone generator caps instead of paper which stopped in 1966. Not power supply caps or coupler caps those are electrolytic. The tall cans with circles and squares are electrolytic. Anything with a plus on one end or a red end is electrolytic or tantalum. And in #9474 the tantalums caps started failing in 1969.
Get the original sound back before you monkey with distorting it. It's distorted already by the horseshoe shaped frequency filter curve.
The service manual shows where to mix in sound from a record player on the back of one of the tab switches. Put your effect box return in there.
The place where UM & LM split is the vib tabs. You could put an additional double throw gold plate switch in there to sub in effected signal instead of straight. You get the top of the tab box off by removing the wood top, then the preamp covers, then some cover screws, then pry back in the slots by twisting a 1/2" wide screwdriver.