Scans would be awesome! Im sure that the original manual would cure a lot if my problems. I have the manual for the x77L leslie (of course mine is the x77P). If there are copyright issues with posting directly to the forum, could send it as an email attatchment?
Glad to see the X77 Owners Corner is still active. I got an X77 and 3 X77L's for a beer a couple of months ago. Hope to have mine up and running in about a month. Lots to fix.
I will soon have (I hope) the complete service manual. I am not suggesting you are not getting good advise fom all, but I may be able to track the wiring problems with the actual schematics for you. Im happy to scan and send along.
(Perhaps someone in the know might jump in and clarify if that is legal. I have read a couple of posts about copyrights, copying, scanning...., and am not certain of the issues here)
In general, the contributors on this forum are tops and a real help.
From all that I have read, the X77 is a strange beast full of pops whistles and hums. My issues are almost all with the X77L, and the complicated "cross-talk" between that and the organ. Specifically, the power supply has been a monster to tame.
If this offer will help, hold tight and as soon as I have the manual, I will try and help.
NEED HELP: i own a Leslie x77P, which had a major malfunction. a nut somehow came loose inside the power supply and fell in just the right way that it connected the two solder points between HOT and GROUND (Blue and Gray wires which are connected to the transformer) immediately the fuse blew, and upon inspection i found the problem, and removed the nut. Now, however, my Leslie power supply continues to blow fuses. i thought maybe a transformer issue. i checked the continuity between hot and ground on the transformer and my multi-meter is showing continuity. is this a sign of a bad transformer? i'm thinking that the short may have caused these two wires to fuse inside the transformer....any one have any suggestions>
Are you 100% sure that the nut falling caused the initial fuse-blow? In my mind, it's possible that the nut was sitting there for months before you noticed it..unless it was visibly marked from the event, or was still shorting the wires when you found it.
I ask because it sounds like you think it shorted the input side of the transformer - which wouldn't normally damage anything; it would just blow a fuse.
well when i initially found the nut, it had fused into the 2 solder joints between hot and ground and they were blackened. I removed it and cleaned up the solder joints and it still blew the fuse. thats when i checked with my multimeter and found continuity between the two inputs of the transformer? i took the transformer apart and did not find any burnt spots or smell anything burned though, but it continues to blow fuses. i do not see any other obvious issues?
Weird. Your diagnostics sound on the money, but I'm at a loss to explain this. Maybe one of the real techs will wander in with an idea.
In the meantime, maybe you can test the transformer separately (how many secondaries?) and check any diodes and capacitors immediately next to it. Maybe also tested it with the motors disconnected, etc. I'm not really familiar with the X77P, it's an oddball.
When you're poking around inside that power supply be careful. Not only is there the usual AC line voltages to be careful of, but there is also high voltage DC that used on the stator plates of the space generator that can give you a nasty shock. Be sure to discharge all capacitors before sticking your hands in there or you'll be in for a surprise.
Finally got the new control panel back from the machine shop. It's been laser cut and worth the 2-week wait. I've drilled all the necessary holes and did a "dry fit" of all the hardware and added the LED panel to the back. The rectangular cutouts are where the Acrylic panels mount, each supporting controls for the various organ functions. The lettering on these panels is backlit by the LED panel. Notice the square copper fans on the LED panel--these are meant to mount directly on the aluminum and do a great job of keeping it cool. Now that I know everything fits, it all comes apart and the panel goes to another shop to get the length-wise bends to match the X's original panel, and then to another shop to be powder coated. I'll post more pics when it's done.
Over the years: Hammond M3, BC, M102, B3, four X77s and three PR-40s, a Thomas Electra and a Celebrity, three Fender Rhodes, Roland HS-10, HP-2000, HP-600, RD-600, JV-880, a thing made by Korg (?), two Leslie 910s, 122, 257, 258, 247, two 142s, and three custom-built Leslies. Wow, way too much money spent!
Thanks Wes. It's been a long project that began back in 2011, but I love X77s. This is my 4th one and I've spent many, many hours on this rebuild. I'm on disability so the money I can put into it is limited and probably the main factor in why the project has taken so long. But it's been a learning experience and I have a running joke that it's my Edison organ because I've discovered lots of ways NOT to do something. I should mention that in tis rebuild, the only original Hammond parts remaining are the keyboards and tone generator. When I first got the organ, back I 06, I did a quick rebuild typically necessary for any X77--replaced all the electrolytic caps and transistors, cleaned all the pots, drawbars, tab switches, and placed the PC boards that are mounted on the back in a chassis in order to shield them for the reduction of hum. I played it in a jazz concert in '11 and really didn't like how she sounded, so I scrapped pretty much everything, determined to get her as close to the sound of a B3 as possible, and also give her some cool effects and features along the way. If you're interested I can get more detailed in everything going on. I would really like to create a website where I can display and document the project's progress and share ideas and get other player's input, but I am not very savvy in this area and have no idea how to do it.
As far as the control panel goes, I really don't like the tab switches Hammond used on most of their organs. They're difficult to clean or replace and damn-near impossible to troubleshoot. So, I came up with the idea of the aluminum panel shown in the previous post, which would then support Acrylic panels that hold the controls. These panels are clear and have a black coating on the back. Then the labeling for each control is laser-engraved on the back of the panel, which allows me to backlight it with the LED panel. Here's the first control panel from start to finish:
The problem with this panel is that it was never bent right and this prevented the organ's top from mounting correctly, so I decided to start over with the new one.
Like I said, it's the Edison organ. :)
Let me know if you want to see more.
Over the years: Hammond M3, BC, M102, B3, four X77s and three PR-40s, a Thomas Electra and a Celebrity, three Fender Rhodes, Roland HS-10, HP-2000, HP-600, RD-600, JV-880, a thing made by Korg (?), two Leslie 910s, 122, 257, 258, 247, two 142s, and three custom-built Leslies. Wow, way too much money spent!
So this isn't even an X77...it's a totally custom Hammond organ. Very nice. I would certainly enjoy reading more about it. Ideas are the most valuable online commodity IMO and you seem to have plenty to share!
Well, I've tagged it the X77-B. It still has the original generator, keyboards, pedalboard, and drawbar rail. Yes, all the original electronics are gone. A Trek II string bass unit has been added and a Trek II preamp will handle preamping everything to the output system. I should mention that the pedal drawbar assembly has been split in two and another matching transformer added. This way I can separate the organ's pedal tones from the string bass unit as each drive their own speaker system. The addition of the "-B" is to indicate that I've added B3-style vibrato and chorus, something the X was sorely lacking and I'll never understand why.
The tone generator has the mechanical accommodations for a scanner at the right end, and the one I added there came out of an E-100. After a few conversations with Mike Smokowicz (Trek II) we decided on a 19-stage line box, and that was obtained from a parted-out A-100. I didn't bother with installing a Vibrato/Chorus selector switch and just wired the system for the V3/C3 output--the setting most players use anyway. Other additions are: an expanded percussion section, phaser, echo, and wah-wah effects on the upper manual, a Lowrey feature known as Automatic Orchestra Control (AOC), 8'and 4' strings on the lower manual, and velocity sensitive MIDI on the upper manual. The pedals have also been midi'd. I spent a couple years designing and bread boarding all the new circuits before having them produced. There are 26 PC boards in the organ now and finding room for all this was no small task. Plus, all the cheek blocks have been used for control space. The project has become a joke in the family and is continually compared to the Sistine Chapel, as in when the hell will it be done? haha But ya know, I'm retired now and time is what I have and I decided a while back to either do this right or not at all.
Over the years: Hammond M3, BC, M102, B3, four X77s and three PR-40s, a Thomas Electra and a Celebrity, three Fender Rhodes, Roland HS-10, HP-2000, HP-600, RD-600, JV-880, a thing made by Korg (?), two Leslie 910s, 122, 257, 258, 247, two 142s, and three custom-built Leslies. Wow, way too much money spent!
Weird. Your diagnostics sound on the money, but I'm at a loss to explain this. Maybe one of the real techs will wander in with an idea.
In the meantime, maybe you can test the transformer separately (how many secondaries?) and check any diodes and capacitors immediately next to it. Maybe also tested it with the motors disconnected, etc. I'm not really familiar with the X77P, it's an oddball.
Wes
So, other than a bad PT, what are other common causes of blown fuses in the X77p? I'm in the process of replacing the electrolytic caps right now, at least the ones i'm able to find at the Shack. Maybe the can caps? any ideas where to find these in the correct values? they are Mallory 5000 Mfd @ 35 VDC.
To music man:
I replace all electrolytic caps in audio devices that malfunction over 20 years old, and 5 years in computer mainboards and TV accesories. You may test them for ESR and capacitance with a meter, but as the performance varies with temperature and the quality of the seal or amount of water remaining is not tested, I don't bother.
Tall can caps in tube voltages are being manufactured by FP and CE. The are available from triodeelectonics.com (IL) and tubesandmore.com (AZ).
However, nobody is making tall cans in transistor voltages that I am aware of. More than 50% under rated voltage you run the risk of the capacitance being different than described.
I replace can caps with radial lead and snap-in electrolytic caps from Nichicon, Rubicon, Panasonic. These are available from newark.com (SC) and digikey.com (MN). Both have the hours service life in the selector table. I prefer the grades rated >3000 hours service life, as I have had to replace caps from physical stores 4 times in my hifi amp. They solder on terminal strips from cinch, the 56a and 53 are fairly useful. The 56 can go across the old can hole. These are available from tubesandmore.com triodeelectronics.com apexelectronic.com (LA) electronicsurplus.com (NY) and mcmelectronics.com (OH). I do not recommend electrolytic caps from mcm, they don't provide brand, service life spec or type number. FP and CE caps have no service life number, but I installed some in 2010 that still work okay.
Get some #6 screws and elastic stop nuts to mount the strips, or 3 or 4 mm if you prefer the metric. I buy mine in boxes of 50-100 from mcmaster.com (OH) All these vendors take debit or credit cards; I order over the internet via a PC. Freight to a home address is cheaper using USPS. Also USPS doesn't have a milage charge.
Best of luck.
To bnelson218,
I'm quite impressed with your modification of the X77. How did you sense the velocity for midi on the upper manual? I assume an additional contact must be added since the Hammond ones hit all at the same time - roughly.
city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112
So, other than a bad PT, what are other common causes of blown fuses in the X77p? I'm in the process of replacing the electrolytic caps right now, at least the ones i'm able to find at the Shack. Maybe the can caps? any ideas where to find these in the correct values? they are Mallory 5000 Mfd @ 35 VDC.
in the power supply:
Bad rectifier diodes
Bad zener regulator diodes
Bad regulator transistors
external the power supply
The amplifier modules.
Leslie motors
Anything else powered by the power supply, i.e. space generator
shorted wiring
I very much doubt the root of your problem is a bad capacitor, but if it is, it almost certainly took out one or more power supply diodes or transistors.
The way to troubleshoot this is to disconnect everything the power supply is powering and see if the fuse blows. If it does then start looking at the power supply diodes and transistors.
If you have to replace the can capacitors, you can use radial lead capacitors under the chassis. You should be able to find what you need at Digi-Key or Jameco.
Anything else powered by the power supply, i.e. space generator
shorted wiring
I very much doubt the root of your problem is a bad capacitor, but if it is, it almost certainly took out one or more power supply diodes or transistors.
The way to troubleshoot this is to disconnect everything the power supply is powering and see if the fuse blows. If it does then start looking at the power supply diodes and transistors.
If you have to replace the can capacitors, you can use radial lead capacitors under the chassis. You should be able to find what you need at Digi-Key or Jameco.
my knowledge of transistors and diodes is limited, do they have certain values that you must adhere to like a cap or are they just a generic type of component? i do have schematics for the power supply to go by. also, is this something available at radioshack>?
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