Wurlitzer 4410

[toasterDude]

Hi guys... branching out from Hammond-land a little bit with a Wurlitzer 4410 spinet I picked up. This seems like an extremely well-built instrument! But it does have a couple issues:</P>


1) the expression pedal has no effect at all. Looks like it's going to be a pain to get in there and see what's going on, too... does anyone know what type of expression control this model used?(lightbulb or potentiometer) It actually looks like there might be a (broken) belt in there - ?</P>


2) the pedal volume is extremely weak, and the lowest "C" doesn't sound at all. Is the Wurlitzer amp like the Hammond amps, where one tube/valve is dedicated to amplifying the pedal signal? The tubes seem to be set up in pairs, so I can try some targeted swapping if there's any chance that might pinpoint the weak volume problem.</P>


3) the blower motor (a nice little G.E. number) soundsas ifit needs lubrication, like today! Anyone know the oiling points on one of these?</P>


Thanks in advance for any help... this thing has a very nice sound, much more pipe-organ-like to my ear than a Hammond. Not sure though if its value will be enough to warrant buying a service manual and really getting in there... anyway cheers-</P>


Scott</P>

[Guest]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410



Hi Scott. </P>


I put up some low-quality pictures of the 4410 that I have. iPhones are great, but nobody is going to become a pulitzer winning photographer with the quality they deliver. </P>


Here's a link to an album</P>


The organ is in working condition; its been sitting in this bedroom for at least 16 years and probably has not been played in that long either.</P>


I'm not looking to get rich with it, but I would like it to go somewhere it will be appreciated</P>


I tried to capture what I hoped are features/options that distinguish one from another. </P>


</P>

[Guest]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410



Hello Scott, </P>


I'm utterly clueless about organs, Wurlitzer or any other kind. I don't play or have any musical talent whatsoever other than knowing how to operate my iPod. My grandmother played in her later years, and I believeI have a Wurlitzer 4410 sitting in a back bedroom that has been untouched since before 2000. Itwas probably acquired used around 1985 or later. It appears to be in working order. Can you give me any suggestions on how to better use this site to see if anyone is interested in it, how best to arrange transportation, and how much something like this is worth? </P>


Sorry for being so uninformed, but that's why I'm here. I am not interested in getting rich, but I also don't want to just give it away if someone has an interest in what I presume is an item that may have value to them. </P>


I would most just like it to go to someone who would value it; to know it isn't being wasted like it is now. </P>


Thanks for any help you can give me. </P>


Joe </P>


Hazleton, PA</P>

[TheAdmiral]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410



Greetings Scott,</p>

Since your posting is over 2 years ago you probably have your answers by now or have scrapped the organ. I just happen to have one that I got by buying a Leslie. They are totally different than Hammonds. Look how cheaply the cabinet is made. </p>

If I remember correctly, the volume pedal operates by a potentiometer/pulley system that is connected with a string wrapped around it so that when you change the pedal position it moves the string up or down via an attached pulley and changes the potentiometer.The string may be broken or slipped off.
</p>

The bass pedal probably can be fixed by replacing a little neon looking bulb. They are made with thin wires that tend to corrode and break easily. Each note has one but you'll have to turn the organ on it's side to take off the pedals and work on it. A pain.
</p>

[toasterDude]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410



thanks Admiral. I actually just posted about the Wurly yesterday - the 2 years ago date is when i first signed up on this forum! Anyway - Yes, it does look like there was a belt on the expression pedal, that's now broken. So that could be a problem. I guess I could contact Morelock's and see if by chance they still have this belt in their parts stash. Thanks also for the info re: the pedals, I'll tip the old boy over and have a look.</P>


I was interested to hear you say the cabinet on yours is cheaply made - ? On mine it seems *extremely* solid, even heavier wood than a contemporaneous Hammond M3. Maybe you're comparing a later model Wurlitzer...? This one seems to date from about 1958 or 1959, going by the date codes on the tubes &amp; speaker. Really a neat design, creating tones with reeds like an older pump organ but then using electrical contacts and amplification. I bet the actual full-size/console Wurlitzers of this vintage are formidable instruments! anyway cheers- Scott</P>

[back52887]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410



Hi, T D</P>


I'm guessing your swell pedal has a rheostat, I think the whole assembly plugs into to amp at some point.</P>


To get to the blower, you have to pull out the whole reed box as far as the wires will allow, then open it. The Motor and the transmission connecting it to the blower may both need lubed, and I think there are instructions inside that recommend a light greese (70-90 wt) ; nothing like Hammond or Leslie oil.</P>


Don't know about your pedal problem but switching around the tubes won't hurt as long as you do it cold.</P>


Lee</P>

[toasterDude]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410 - confusion!



Thanks Lee for your suggestions. I think the motor that needs oil is outside the blower box - but I'll look inside if there's hope for some service instructions there. As far as the low volume on the pedals, that's fixed now! [:)] I swapped the tubes adjacent to the treble and bass RCA jacks (6SQ7s if I recall) and they came right back. Maybe it was just a dirty tube socket, though I had already sprayed them.</P>


But the main issue now is the expression pedal. I managed to rig up a very nice replacement for the broken belt, from a vacuum cleaner belt. But here's the confounding thing: the expression pedal works now, but backwards - !?! --At least, backwards compared to how a Hammond pedal works - Wurlitzer didn't by chance do it the other way 'round, did they? I can't imagine they did, but I'm really puzzled b/c otherwise I can't see how a simple belt could be configured so as to yield the more familiar action on the pedal. So: anyfurther suggestionsVERY much appreciated!</P>

[Royal]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410 - confusion!

I don't know anything about belt "driven" expression pedals, but by listening to the discussion, ...try buying a longer vacuum cleaner belt and turning it once between pulleys so that the belt looks like a figure 8. :-) It ought to work.....I like cheap easy fixes. Roy

[bluetantra]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410 - confusion!



Hi, Scott-</P>


Your's may be similar to the setup used on my 4100. I can't quite reach it at the moment without moving a T-422 and a Magnavox Hi-Fi, but looking at the service manual for the 4100, one end of the cord is fastened to a post on the side of the bracket at the rear of the swell pedal. The cord then wraps once around the pulley mounted to the potentiometer's shaft and is attached to a spring and then the spring to another post near the bracket's bottom. The cord on mine looks similar to a black shoestring. It sounds as if you just need to reverse the way the cord (or vacuum cleaner belt or shoestring) is wrapped around the pulley. Hope this helps!</P>

[toasterDude]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410 - confusion!



Thanks for the advice Roy and BT. It looks like the 4100 and 4410 must handle the expression pedal action quite differently: the 4410 doesn't appear to have (or ever to have had), the bracket and spring assembly described. As far as I can see it's just the pulley connected to the pedal itself, then the pulley around the shaft of the volume pot.[*-)] Maybe the original was crisscrossed, as Roy suggests - impossible to tell as I found it in three pieces on the floor of the pedal enclosure! I might try finding a longer belt and crossing it, or I might just rewire the pot since the makeshift belt I rigged up fits very nicely as it is.</P>


The only remaining problem is the low "C" pedal is out. I flipped the organ on its side to have a look, but... there's no way to get into the pedal assembly from underneath. It's just a solid steel casing on the bottom. I guess you must have to go in under the reed box (!) to get at it. Ugh. So I'm thinking of getting the service manual - BT, did you order yours straight from somebody like Morelock's? If so how much was it? There's a guy selling one on Ebay but I can't see putting $20 into an organ that's going to be worth $10 when I'm done with it LOL. Anyway thanks again, this sure is a neat little old organ. Scott</P>

[bluetantra]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410 - confusion!



I did buy my 4100 manual from Morelock's, for a little over $30. There was also ~$70 for new FP caps, about $35 for electrolytics and power resistors, a 200 mile round-trip to pick it up, and I know I paid too much for the organ at $200, even with the separate model 30 Spectratone. Oh... and the weird 12FQ8 tubes that only Wurlitzer seems to have used.... but I'm getting off track. Put the $20 into it; the personal knowledge you'll gain from the manual should be worth that much, not to mention the satisfaction of getting this increasingly rare type of organ in top playing condition, even though it is a spinet. But why am I telling you all this? This isn't your first organ to rescue.</P>


Please post some photos of your 4410, Scott; especially the swell pedal assembly and surrounding area. I, for one, am curious to see the innards. The only blown-reed Wurlitzer I've ever had the opportunity to see was a model 20 some years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I remember reading that the 4410 was from about 1956, wasn't it?</P>


bt</P>

[james]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410 - confusion!



Hi guys,</P>


This organ is worth restoring if you can take the time as well as a bit of parts to get the job done. These reed models by Wurlitzer were some of the best ever and their overall sound is much like a real pipe organ especially with the vibrato turned off. The action of the keys is very smooth, yet lightning fast. The only tubes used in this organ is in the amplifier. The blower motor does need oil, but NO oil is needed inside the reed case. It would ruin those brass reeds. This organ did come on the MKT around '56 and followed the first Wurlitzer Spinette model 44. After the 4410 came the 4420 which has a different type of cabinet somewhat as well as a 16' in the pedals. Later came the 4430 which was the final Spinette reed model by Wurlitzer. All reed models were dropped at the end of 1963. The tube models such as the 4100 and 4460 started in '59 - '65.</P>


It is certainly worth ordering the service manual for this organ, and taking the time to getting it into good playing condition if at all possible. Do remember it might take a labor of love since these do date back quite some time. If it has been well taken care of as well as being inside since new then you have some good plus factors there.</P>
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You might check and see if your pedals have the neon lights in each one such as the 4100 has. These small lights have two wires inside them, and yes you will have to go inside to remove the pedal board. Wurlitzer built some organs like a battleship as well as some other companies when they were into trying to make a good organ sound without all those whirling speakers, perc, easy play features, etc.</P>


I am almost finished with getting my Wurlitzer 4100 back into good playing shape. The tech has yet to re- repair a pedal that has gone out again, and get the 16' pedals to sounding. Otherwise my organ plays well. It has many of the features of the Wurlitzer reed organs, yet is Wurlitzer's first all tube model along with its big brother the 4460.</P>


Good luck with this worthwhile project, and keep us posted.</P>
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James</P>

[toasterDude]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410 - confusion!



OK, you guys talked me into it! I went ahead and ordered the service manual so I can bring the Wurlitzer all the way back. I really am entranced by the sound of it -I agree wholeheartedly about the more pipe-organ-like sound of the reeds. ...If you think about it, reedsactually make more sensethan tonewheels as a tone generation mechanism; the latter obviously being a happy accident of R&amp;D at Hammond clockworks! --not that I love the tonewheel sound any the less, of course.</P>


I will definitely post some pictures of this little organ. Going by the date codes on the tubes, it looks to be about a 1958 model.In fact it's very much like a Hammond M3 in setup, features, and appearance. Other fun facts: no 12FQ8s in the amp, but a lot of 6S--- variants (plus 6L6 outputs, and a 5U4 rectifier unless I miss my guess); 12" field-coil Magnavox speaker; came with a "Dampp-chaser" rod about 4 feet long (!) The only other Dampp-chaser I've come across was just a little 15" or 18" job.</P>


Anyway thanks for the interest, and thanks especially for the historical background, James. I always find the evolution of these instruments to be nearly as fascinating as the sounds they're able to produce. More to come... </P>


cheers, Scott</P>

[james]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410 - confusion!



Scott,</P>


I am glad you made the decision to go ahead and try to bring this nice organ back to proper playing. I was one of Hammond's most loyal fans for years, and basically they are all I was around except for the Baldwin at the local dealers. However, I grew tired of Hammond after many years, and always was searching for an organ with richer tones since I have mostly been a church organist. Hammond does have itsplace with certain denominations, but for the one I played so much for it was just out of place.</P>


The clock maker turned organ maker is indeed a fascinating story in itself. However, the digital organs are unqiue, but they don't have that natural pipe like sound that the old Wurlitzer reed organs have at all. I played Hammond a whole lot before Leslie speakers were used, and without vibrato you had a horrible sound to be honest. At least some vibrato or chours had to be used for them to sound halfway decent.</P>
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I missed a chance on owning a Wurlitzer Spinette model 44 since I was saving my funds for a large Conn that I had in the process of being renovated for me. It took a good number of months for the tech to finish the Conn, and of coarse I lost the chance on the Wurlitzer. These are a one time only if you can find one, purchase it, and have the means to get it home. The tech later brought an old 44 out to the house he had located for me to thump around on as well as make a decision if I wanted to spend quite a bit on bringing it back. I don't think he was too interested in actually doing the job, and even the cabinet was not in good shape at all. When I began to smell a burning smell after it would be on for awhile I quickly changed my mind espeically when the On/Off switch burnt my fingers as I was turning it off. There have been numerous articles here on the forum regarding these organs. Also,you might check and see if the capacitors need replacing. The end product of a labor of love for these old organs will be worth it in the long run if you like this type of sound. I do envy you guys that can purchase these old organs and bring them back to proper playing condition. I can only play, and don't know much about working on one at all. I am at the mercy of the tech now to come back and finish the work on my 4100. I am amazed at how much he has already done, and even covered my speakers with new grille cloth to make it look very plush. This has been an ongoing project for many months.</P>


The tube organs by Wurlitzer have a different sound than the early reed models as well as the later transistor models. This company has a fascinating history in the electronic organ field.</P>
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James</P>

[toasterDude]

Re: Wurlitzer 4410 - confusion!

[quote user="bluetantra"]


Please post some photos of your 4410, Scott; especially the swell pedal assembly and surrounding area. </P>


bt</P>


[/quote]</P>


Well, I haven't gotten around to snapping any pics of the 4410 yet, but I did scan the relevant page from the service manual. You can see it in the "Photos" section, under toasterDude's gallery. Here's the funny part: Roy had the right idea all along! You can see in the picture, they just used a longer belt and twisted it into a figure 8. So I guess I can go ahead and do it that way without feeling like I cheated!</P>


The bad news is, there's nothing in the service manual about how to get to the bass pedal assembly. [:(] So I'm afraid I'll just have to keep exploring around in there under the reed box... when it gets above 10 degrees in the garage, that is. Stay tuned...</P>