Hammond cv with Leslie 21h --issue with distortion

[DanielP]

I'm really looking for a well balanced (treble/bass) sound with great powerful bass lows. Right now, if I pull out all the db's the Treble is overpowering the bass.

As I mentioned above first you need to find out about your woofer, but if your 21H still has the original crossover caps this also could be part of why your trebles are overpowering the woofer. The old caps tend to drift allowing more signal to pass through to the driver. Replacing those caps could help you in this area as well.

I don't know if you have the back panels on your speaker or not, but your speaker will have way more bass if you have the middle back panel on. I've found by adding the panel on the top shelf for the treble driver that it will tame some of the drivers high frequencies. Also, positioning in the room will have a big impact on the bassiness of your speaker (considering the woofer is working correctly!). These are things to keep in mind.

[hammondcv]

update- I did install the upper driver last night. I could tell that it helped. It sounds more clear. The woofer has a pm with 2 wires and there is a large resistor to the side. The cross over looks to be orginal. I will post pics when I get home this evening. I am now hear hearing crisper and cleaner highs, from the upper register keys. When I play the lower register keys, There is a little mudiness mix with small amounts of distortion. Overall the sound is better, but more noticeable (better) on the higher notes played.

The cross over appears to be larger the one Ive seen online. The resistor is about 16 inches long-looks like a long tube. The wooker has tape on the bell and it is written that it is 16ohm. I believe the bass could be clearer and more robust.

[hammondcv]

Based on what I described, Should I look at woofer, resistor, or crossover next.

[DanielP]

Resistor being there is a good sign, you will want to check on the value of it to be certain. What does the crossover look like? Is it still in the little square box screwed onto the cab above and behind the woofer? I'm not certain of the differences between field coil speaker crossovers and PM speaker crossover, it may just be the wiring. It is probable that whoever swapped out the woofer and added the resistor also swapped in a new crossover, who knows when they did that. If it was recently than the caps may be fine. A way to check if the problem was with your crossover IF you had a field coil speaker would be to plug your woofer directly into the amp and bypass the crossover, then you could hear your woofer directly and hear whether your woofer had an issue or if it was the crossover that was creating the problem. You still might be able to do that, but without seeing a photo of how the speaker is wired with the resistor I can't say for certain. Post a photo, you may be able to test your woofer this way.

Since your driver was not sounding good, it is possible your woofer also has issues, who knows the previous owner may have really ragged on the speaker. Have you checked the cone on the woofer?

I'm just brainstorming, with troubleshooting if you can isolate and test components you are suspecting that can narrow down where the issue lies. I like to try the things that don't cost money first so you don't spend money on parts that don't fix the problem. That said, your speakers and crossover may be fine and you just have a bad power tube. OR the problem might even be somewhere in your CV. If you have other tubes try them out. If you can plug your speaker into a different organ try it.

[TheAdmiral]

Based on what I described, Should I look at woofer, resistor, or crossover next.

Are you sure the woofer is 16 ohms?

[hammondcv]

I am posting pictures of the woofer cross over and resistor. The woofer has masking tape on the back side of the bell that someone wrote 16ohms. I tried to get close up shots to show identifing marks.

[jdoc]

I would change the woofer.......

[hammondcv]

assuming that the set allows for a PM woofer, what are the top choices or preferences. If the resistor is value is not correct what would you recommend and where to buy? Assuming that the crossover is not sufficient, what type and where to purchase?

Thanks

[hammondcv]

based on the pics what kind on woofer would you guess this is? Out side of the number markings there is no permanet tag attached.

[DanielP]

The numbers 232 show up often on Magnavox speakers, it also looks somewhat Rola'ish. My guess is that it is a Magnavox. Either way I agree with jdoc on looking into something different. Most common woofers you see in Leslies are the Jensen P15LL "silver bell" speakers which sound really nice, or the Jensen C15LL and then you'll see Utah 15" speakers occasionally too. I've heard of people using JBLs too but I don't know which model(s)...my guess is that any of those will outperform the one you've got in there now.

[hammondcv]

Update-
I ordered the Delta 15b woofer for the leslie. I noticed that As i was looking into the different options, I saw brief descriptions of other brands. I saw that the hamond-suzuki oem was made in such a way to accent the 2d harmonic. I also noticed that the Delta was described as a mid - bass speaker. Can someone chime in on decribing the difference in their opinion on the 2 woofers.

Thanks

[geoelectro]

We've been using the Eminence deltaB speakers for decades. They work fine. I've never heard any difference from those and the HS speakers.

Geo

[hammondcv]

UPDATE- I recieved and installed the new Delta 15b. I must say that I was impressed with the overall sound. The distortion is gone and the bass volume is now awsome. So to recap, I rebuilt the 21h amp, replaced the upper horn driver, and the woofer. Ive noticed that the sound has increased and is now clear not distored. I have the volume on the back of the amp turned all the way up. Is that adviseable? I am also thinking about a 2 speed conversion kit. Which is better the hamptone mk1D or the carribean and why?
Can I messup my 21h with these types of controls?

Thanks

Johnny

[TheAdmiral]

UPDATE- I recieved and installed the new Delta 15b. I must say that I was impressed with the overall sound. The distortion is gone and the bass volume is now awsome. So to recap, I rebuilt the 21h amp, replaced the upper horn driver, and the woofer. Ive noticed that the sound has increased and is now clear not distored. I have the volume on the back of the amp turned all the way up. Is that adviseable? I am also thinking about a 2 speed conversion kit. Which is better the hamptone mk1D or the carribean and why?
Can I messup my 21h with these types of controls?

Congratulations! Yes, you can leave the volume full. It's a low power amp with sturdy transformers and I recall you saying you rebuilt it with new caps (if you haven't, you need to). As to 2 speed conversion, I have both brands that work well, but........I'd recommend you contact Geo with a PM as he has brought back a discontinued better one and improved it, called RTC Logic. He might not want to blow his own horn but I will. :-)

[hammondcv]

Thanks so Much, I will checkout the RTC.