Hammond C2 to Leslie 860

[Guest]

Hello,
I have been playing hammond on my nord in bands for about ten years now. So you might guess my excitement when I found a "50's hammond church organ with wooden speaker box--you haul" for FREE on craigslist. It was an immaculate C2 which just needed a little oil to get going.
naturally, the next thing I need is a Leslie. I have found a cheap model 860, and it seems reasonable enough.
However, I have no idea how to connect the two together, as far as adapters, cables, pre-amps, controllers, switches, etc.
If someone could send me in the right direction, I should be able to figure it out.
The C2 still has the output (5 pin) it needs for the dr70 tone cabinet with which it came, so I assume it was the factory standard install for that kind of organ. The 860 has an 11 pin input.
5 does not equal 11, so I need some help.
Thanks

[TheAdmiral]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the nice find.
You can make it work with a little tweaking. 4 of those 11 pins aren't connected so that only leaves 7. You can make your own connector box or if you can find a ready made one that might be easier to hook up but hard to find. Someone will be along with the correct box number of that box. One thing is you could put an 11 pin connector in the Hammond next to the 5 pin and just wire to the pins necessary for it to operate if you already have an 11 pin cable.. Yes, the 5 pin is standard configuration.
The speed switching operates differently than the older standard models.
Here is the 860 schematic:
http://www.captain-foldback.com/Lesl...matics/860.gif

[jimmywilliams]

Also, see this thread as it contains an attached PDF file that graphically shows the relationship between the many Leslie pinout configurations:

http://www.organforum.com/forums/sho...e-Pinout-Chart

If you have the stock 5-pin tone cabinet connector this translates into "B3/C3 Factory" on the PDF chart in the thread (Admiral I thought it was factory stock on the C2 as well since that model did not need the B+ from the tone cabinet??).

You will see how that translates into a 6-pin retrofit 6H socket and then trace the 6H connector through all the other socket diagrams until you see how it connects to the 11-pin socket.

I think some of these consoles had some spare "punch out" holes you would put an 11-poin socket into as Admiral suggested.

From my understanding...

Pin 3 of the 5-pin socket (audio ground) connects to pin 4 on an 11 pin socket.

Pin 5 of the 5-pin socket (one end of the balanced audio only - the 860 takes an unbalanced signal) connects to pin 1 on an 11-pin socket.

Trem switching and Leslie on-off need additional switches as per the 11-pin diagram. I assume you have no currently Leslie hookup or switches on your C2. Even if you did most likely it would function very differently than the 11-pin setup.

On the 11-pin, pin 5 must be switched to pin 6 to turn the Leslie on. These newer models did not take AC power directly from the organ; they have theor own power plugs and use a remote on/off switch to actuate a master relay in the Leslie.

Trem switching on the 11-pin:
Switch pin 7 to pin 6 for fast peed. Switch pin 8 to pin 6 for slow speed. Leaving pin 6 disconnected from either pins 7 or 8 stops the rotors from spinning. NEVER under any circumstances connect BOTH pins 7 and 8 to pin 6 together!

Again the diagram shows how you can hook up the switches.

I hope this helps. I assume it is safe to just take one end of the balanced C2 preamp output and leave the other end alone.
If there are any errors Admiral will jump in :-).

Also I am not sure how you would go about switching from the Leslie to the tone cabinet, to both, etc. Or if you even want to. That would make things more complicated.

I really like my 860. It is the only Leslie I found that is not a total bear to lug around and my wife and I were able to carry it upstairs to our music room. I don't have dollies, a large van, etc. It may be lacking as far as bass pedals on a Hammond console, but the add-on string bass on my Porta-B sounds fine through it. You may want to keep your tone cabinet hooked up as the bass pedals would probably sound better through that.

[jimmywilliams]

Also be very careful if you are tapping off the existing 5-pin. That socket also carries AC voltages on pins 2 and 4 so be extremely careful not to accidentally jumper any connections unintentionally. Don't do any of this while the organ is on, or even plugged in, just to be safe!

[Hamman]

Jimmy is that for electrical reasons on the circuit board?

NEVER under any circumstances connect BOTH pins 7 and 8 to pin 6 together!.

[jimmywilliams]

Jimmy is that for electrical reasons on the circuit board?

Not quite ... It is so you never have both the slow and fast motors powered at the same time. Its either/or, never both. A SPDT switch with a center "off" position is the safest bet if you are rolling your own connector kit. Pin 6 is the single pole you need to switch, pin 7 is one throw, pin 8 is the other throw. A center "off" position gives you the "stop" as well. If you only want fast or slow, a regular SPDT switch would work too.

For turning the Leslie itself on you can use a simple SPST switch to connect pin 5 to pin 6, or if you want to get fancy you can wire up a 120v relay into the switched AC mains in the organ to do the switching - so the Leslie will turn on/off automatically when the organ is turned on/off. But it is really not necessary and might be more risky than to just hook up a separate switch to turn the Leslie on and off remotely - as from what I understand the AC wiring insulation in those old Hammonds can get brittle over time.

[Hamman]

Just wondering.....I'm going to be finally hooking up my tremolo speed control switching to my 720's (Conn 651) and though I don't plan on energizing both slow and fast motors at the same time I just wanted to know if it was something that would damage the circuit board vs just "locking" both motors together (which in theory could blow one of those pain in the butt circuit board mounted fuse) Thanks!

Not quite ... It is so you never have both the slow and fast motors powered at the same time. Its either/or, never both. A SPDT switch with a center "off" position is the safest bet if you are rolling your own connector kit. Pin 6 is the single pole you need to switch, pin 7 is one throw, pin 8 is the other throw. A center "off" position gives you the "stop" as well. If you only want fast or slow, a regular SPDT switch would work too.

For turning the Leslie itself on you can use a simple SPST switch to connect pin 5 to pin 6, or if you want to get fancy you can wire up a 120v relay into the switched AC mains in the organ to do the switching - so the Leslie will turn on/off automatically when the organ is turned on/off. But it is really not necessary and might be more risky than to just hook up a separate switch to turn the Leslie on and off remotely - as from what I understand the AC wiring insulation in those old Hammonds can get brittle over time.

[CEB]

I wouldn't mess with any of that jerry rigging especially since you have $0 invested in the B-2.

If you want to hook a 860 to a B-2 I would just get an 1188 connector kit and have someone install it to support an 11-pin single channel Leslie.

I like the 860 and I use one a lot but I would not expect it to be is the leslie you want your B-2's permanent Leslie, especially if it is a home instrument. If you want to use for instance a 122 I would consider a installing the kit for a 122 and then getting the Leslie 611 interface. It is more money but once you do it you will be done. But if you doo not have a line on a dream leslie then it is probably moot.

If it is strictly going to be a road organ (I wouldn't gig with a console anymore. ) Then stick with just the 11-pin interface and if you want to upgrade in the future go with the 3300 if you feel the need. It bites that we can't get the 3300W in North America. 3300 eats alive any other leslie I have ever heard especially with the sub out option.

I have both 3300 and a 860 and I use the 860 because it fits easier in the back of my HHR. It lacks some low end but in a gig situation with a bass it is fine. It's friggin' loud. At the sweet spot it is the loudest thing on stage sometimes I cover it with a blanket.

Someone put some digital camera footage of it on Youtube from New Years eve. Sorry about the crappy playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76dPT5L_IKg

[Hamman]

Ahh... my 971 is loud and powerful! A factory screamer out of the box.....stock!