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Leslie motors...what am I missing?

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  • Leslie motors...what am I missing?

    Hey folks!

    Short back story here -- I've been the happy owner of a single speed Leslie 47 for the better part of a decade now. I use it ALL THE TIME (gig with it as well as home use) and it's been a rock for me. I've taken the motors out a handful of times (maybe 3 or 4), disassembled them, cleaned them, and re-oiled them with good results. All has been well :)

    Enter my recent Franken-Leslie purchase that I couldn't turn down given the price I got for it. It's a 147 amp in a 122 RV cabinet, complete with a disconnected reverb unit. Leslie works great aside from a bad amphenol connector and noisy motors that take too long to spin up to speed. So, amateur that I am, I decided to take on my first set of dual motor stacks I've ever dealt with (my 47 having only single speed, fast motors).

    I successfully took the upper stack out, separated the slow motor from the fast motor, and proceeded to take apart the fast motor in the way I've always done with my 47. No problems so far. I do my usual routine of dust blowing and lightly oiling the shaft, etc. All appears to be well -- I reconstruct the motor, making sure everything goes back in the proper place, and I plug the thing in (without re-attaching it to the slow motor or putting it back in the Leslie -- just for testing). No love! I can't get it to spin.

    I hear a hum and there's clearly power, but the shaft won't spin. With a little elbow grease, I can lift up on the shaft a centimeter or two and then I can see it catch and begins to spin. But there's a small amount of horizontal play in the motor shaft (about a centimeter - is that normal?) , and gravity keeps it down. When I push it up, I can get it to catch momentarily, but clearly this doesn't seem right to me. These things should spin freely on their own, right?

    I go through the SAME process with the lower motor stack -- same problem! I literally pull the stack from the Leslie, separate the two motors, and plug the fast motor into an outlet. Spins great. I unscrew the four bolts that hold the thing together, give it a blow out, and reconnect the four bolts and the motor sides. NO SPINNING!! AHHH. So frustrating.

    Anyone with an idea about what I'm missing? I'm by all accounts an amateur, and I'm sure I'm doing something stupid, but it just doesn't make sense to me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much!

    - Wes
    Silver Spring, MD

  • #2
    This isn't your problem, but you oiled the felt pad on the fast motors, right? You said you just oiled the shaft; you can't get at the pads through the "tray" like you can on a single-speed.

    Did you get the spacers on right? http://www.flickr.com/photos/shellya...57628370889289

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    • #3
      Hey Wes! Nice to hear from another Wes! :)

      Yes, I did oil the felt pad, sorry I forgot to mention that.

      Spacers are on right, and everything seems to lock into place as normal. I just can't get the thing to spin by plugging into an outlet! It takes me pulling UP on the shaft (or pushing from the bottom) in order for it to catch, and then I can feel it catch for a split second, but I can't sustain it because the damn thing spins against my hand, but I can feel it catch, but as soon as it drops back down that small distance (a centimeter or so), it locks back up and just hums and doesn't spin.

      Blah. I should stick to playing the damn thing.

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      • #4
        This might help.
        Attached Files

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        • #5
          Folks! No luck so far. Please check out this video which illustrates the problem. I'm CONVINCED I'm doing something stupidly wrong because the same thing happens with BOTH my fast motors. Any suggestions welcome and appreciated!

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poffOoSMde0

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          • #6
            What is it catching on? Did you lose some washers or spacers?

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            • #7
              Nope! I don't think it's catching on ANYTHING, that's the bitch of it. It's free spinning when power is off, but as soon as I turn it on, it acts like it's catching on something, but isn't. It's just locked into place until I push down (or pull up) on the shaft. But as soon as I unplug it, I can spin it completely freely with my hand.

              So frustrating. Very sure all the washers/spacers/felts are in the right places. I'm actually using the one in the video (lower baffle) because literally all I did was take the four bolts off that keep the thing together, and then tried putting it back together.

              Is there supposed to be that little bit of horizontal give in the shaft? It seems like it's right.

              Comment


              • #8
                It takes me pulling UP on the shaft (or pushing from the bottom) in order for it to catch, and then I can feel it catch for a split second...but as soon as it drops back down that small distance (a centimeter or so), it locks back up and just hums and doesn't spin.
                The exact same thing happened to me the last two times I disassembled and cleaned up my two speed motors, I think put it together and took it apart 5 or 10 times thinking maybe the screws were upside down or I missed some piece in the assembly, took me hours, I was really frustrated trying to figure what in the heck had happened. Mine just like yours had the slightest bit of horizontal play on the shaft, and what seemed to be happening was gravity was pulling it down and locking it up.

                What I found looking closer was there is a little allen wrench adjustable screw at the base of the shaft just above the rubber edged wheel (see photo, circled in red) and by loosening it, lifting the shaft UP to where it would catch correctly and then tighten it again it holds it firmly in place. It solved the problem for me, I wouldn't be suprised if that will do the trick for you.

                Click image for larger version

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                • #9
                  I actually had DanielPs' problem the first time I assembled my two-speed stack. The wheel can hit the screws that hold the plate to the motor if you don't allow enough clearance when putting it on the shaft. I'd forgotten all about that...

                  Weslan, I don't know if this is your problem, but I'm pretty sure SOMETHING is catching.

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                  • #10
                    It seems like, from the video, that the shaft (opposite side of the wheel end) has an awful lot of "side play". Is something missing? I don't think that shaft should move side to side like that. It's only obvious on the non wheel end.

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                    • #11
                      Looks like the bearing is no longer properly seated in the motor housing. It may even be turning with the shaft. Sometimes the bearing will seize onto the shaft. The motor can be strong enough to spin even with the frozen bearing. However, it won't run long that way because there is a great amount of friction between the bearing and housing and it will simply wear down until it becomes very loose. If the bearings are not holding the shaft centered in the magnetic field when powered up the armature will be pulled into the field by magnetism and it cannot turn like that.

                      Geo

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                      • #12
                        Hey everyone,

                        First of all, thanks SO MUCH for all your responses. I really appreciate the advice and walk-through during this traumatic period of trying to get these damn motors back together!

                        Unfortunately I am STILL without success! I tried Daniel's suggestion of adjusting the allen wrench screw on the wheel, but that seems to only control how far down the wheel grips onto the actual shaft (it doesn't effect the horizontal play).

                        The ONLY thing I haven't tried is reconnecting the whole assembly (slow motor), but I fear that's useless, because, correct me if I'm wrong, but the fast motor should be able to spin on it's own, without the slow motor connected, right?

                        I am at wits end here -- the exact same thing is happening with both the upper and lower fast motors. The same horizontal play exists with both motors. On the upper motor, you need to push the shaft UP for it to catch, on the lower motor, you need to push it down (as in the video) for it to catch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poffOoSMde0

                        AHHH! I'm sure it's SIMPLE and STUPID...but I can't get it. I am confident that I am not missing any parts (spacers or otherwise), and I don't think any bearings have seized or anything like that.

                        Does anyone want to make $50? I'd love to ship these to you if you could agree to show me what I'm doing wrong. *sigh*.

                        Thanks again for the continued advice,
                        Wes

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                        • #13
                          Looking at the video, the pully-end bearing assembly is not seated in the housing (when you move the armature up and down, the bronze bearing should not move at all). Once that's fixed....

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                          • #14
                            Hey Tim,

                            How do I get that bronze bearing to seat right? I agree, it looks like it should be higher up on the shaft, but I don't see how I can make that happen. Literally at wits end here -- continued help is appreciated.

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                            • #15
                              You can download the Leslie 147 Owners Manual free of charge from the Captain Foldback site.The early one (1963) is more detailed than the later (1970) one.......
                              Page 14A has an exploded view of every part and where it goes....and written instructions on motor maintenance.Once you've seen the proper 'build' you'll be a happy camper.
                              Having a diagram in front of you will be worth a thousand words........

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