Value of an Allen Organ..

[TheYoungOrganist]

Hello Fellow Organists!

My church houses a 1980s Two Manual Allen ADC organ. Probably three years ago now, the instrument was struck by lightning and since then has had a few problems. The problems are getting worse every day. The swell is obnoxiously full of static and will soon be of no use, so we will be left with several stops on the Great and the pedals.. The church has a contract for a new pipe organ. Unfortunately, congregation members do not understand the importance of signing on to the contract as we have had it since May of 2012. Since being issued the contract, the organbuilder has gotten at least one client so that has set everything back another year to two. I was wondering what you may find the value of this instrument may be as there are sill a few people in the church that think it is a good idea to rewire the whole instrument and get new speakers etc. These are obviously the stubborn people that think they know everything. I hope the actual value of the instrument would be eye-opening. Thanks guys!

Also, do you have any tips on how to get people moving on the new pipe organ?

[Snowbandit]

Only your Allen repair tech could tell you for sure but, I suspect an organ that's known to have been struck by lightening and displays lightning related damage would be essentially worthless. With luck someone will haul it to the dump and not charge you too much.

[Jan Girardot]

I cannot disagree more strongly with you, Snowbandit! That console would make a great VPO project.

. . . Jan

[Snowbandit]

LOL............. okay, the woodwork could prove useful.

[arie v]

Jan,

I agree with Snowbandit. An organ that does not work, is typically worth little to nothing. That does not mean that the organ console is useless, as you say it could be made part of a VPO project.

And those who pick up malfunctioning organs for VPO projects generally spend as little as possible on procuring one.

AV

[don60]

Static could also be caused by dirty voicing potentiometers or poor contacts on the plug-in EPROMs and card edge connectors. Before condemning the organ and condemning yourselves to another year or two of acoustic trauma, consider investing a few hundred dollars in a service call by a qualified Allen technician. He should be able to tell in short order whether the instrument exhibits extensive damage characteristic of lightning or simply a few signs of old age. If he presents a written statement that the organ is uneconomical to repair, you might get some action on the pipe organ.

"Rewiring" the existing console would be a fine idea if the current electronics are too far gone--this is the virtual pipe organ approach that others have mentioned above. The down side is that VPOs are not quite operational yet--they require someone with computer savvy to be their caretaker for the duration of their service.

[TheYoungOrganist]

don60 and other;

When the instrument began having problems, we called our primary tech, after a thousand+ dollars in new parts, we got a second opinion. The second declared it was struck by lightning. Shortly thereafter, our primary technician said the same. We began having more problems about a month ago and called our secondary technician because he was found to be more trustworthy, efficient, and easier on the pocket. He inspected the instrument again and cleaned everything etc.. even after the cleaning and inspection we still had problems gradually getting worse. This week the entire Swell has bummed out. It works sometimes, sometimes not.. The reeds on the Great are peculiar as well; as well as the 4" and a 16" in the pedal division.

I forgot to mention that the model is an ADC 5300..

[don60]

The evidence does suggest a lightning strike. That's a shame--the x3xx organs were nice-sounding instruments.

[jbird604]

Even after all the money that has been thrown at it, I'm still wondering if there is a fairly simple problem that has somehow eluded the two technicians. Not that I'm smarter than other techs, but I'm quite OLD and Allen has been my specialty for over 30 years. A big ADC like that should not be junk unless the lightning actually struck so close that it literally burned the wiring inside the organ. And if that happened, I don't see how the church wasn't aware of it at the time. All the circuit boards are available from Allen, as are the EPROMs and everything else inside the console, so this organ CAN be fixed.

I wonder if the cage power supply has been replaced or rebuilt, and if the ADC amplifiers have been renovated or changed out. I know I'm second-guessing your local tech, but did he test the audio straight out of the cage using an external audio system to see if the problems are in the mixer boards, reverb, or other audio components? Did he remove the Card Reader boards to rule out battery damage in that part of the system? Has he pulled each EG board loose to see if one of them is messing up the whole system? Another simple but overlooked issue -- the foam surrounds in all the midrange speakers. If they are crumbling, everything will sound terrible.

If I ran into an old analog Baldwin or something that had the kinds of issues you describe, then yes, I'd say it was a goner. But an ADC Allen is too good an organ and too new to be consigned to the junk heap. I'm sure the church is very frustrated, and anyone would be, after throwing big bucks at the trouble and still not having a decent organ. But I just have to wonder if all the right avenues have been explored.

If you want another opinion, send me a PM and I'll see if I can find someone that I know and trust in your area to check it out. If you happen to be within a few hundred miles, I might even come and see it myself. Or, if you're really tired of trying and you think that pipe organ is many years down the road, maybe I could help you get a good used organ into the church. Would be glad to help any way I can.

[OrgansR4Me]

I hope you are close, JBird! Even if they'd allow you to take it away and replace it I think you are just the man to save this Allen. I don't think the church's contract is worth the paper it is written on. It should have included a payment and work schedule. This builder is not going to stop work he can get to cater to a church that wants a pipe organ someday! If they have enough money collected they should apply it to a new Allen.

[don60]

TYO,

Be sure to take John up on his offers. He is the go-to guy around here for sticky Allen problems and makes an excellent point about the power supply and amplifiers being possible but often-overlooked sources of trouble.

The ADC line uses bipolar (as opposed to MOS) transistor technology throughout except for a rare CMOS chip. It would be inherently more resistant to surges and lightning strikes than the precursor MOS line. Again, John makes an excellent point that the entire card cage is probably not shot, just a handful of boards or some external modules such as the amplifiers.

Finally, he makes the excellent point that this is a nice organ worth saving or passing on to someone with the time and inclination to tinker with it. (John? Is your trailer hitched up?) If this were a small MADC or MDC with limited stop list and mediocre sound, I would say to offer it up for MIDI conversion and be done. But the 5000-series ADCs were the largest of the two manual instruments, and the 3 in the second digit indicates that it is the latest and best of the ADC line with advanced wind, articulation, and random motion effects that come very close to the quality of the later MDS line. I believe my friends who posted previously were probably being flippant when they said to haul it to the dump or give it away. There are some Allen fans out there with the skills and interest to bring it back or at the very least use its good remaining parts responsibly to keep other instruments running.

John, I hope you do live close by. I would like to get your take on this matter.

Don

[robmcginn]

Hi All!
Doggone lightning! I leave my home Allen unplugged when not in use. I know my previous Allen, a DK 4300 was a beautiful sounding organ and I agree with the notion that your 5300, the largest and most up to date 2 manual ADC should be saved if at all possible. Allen does have the parts to fix the ADC series and indeed most any Allen ever manufactured and yes we pay for that but how many other manufacturers have parts dating way back?
Do get John or an otherwise qualified Allen teechnologist to check it out. A few boards or an amp etc would be cheaper than a new organ!

[TheYoungOrganist]

I stuck around when a full inspection was conducted.. Everything was taken out of the instrument and inspected and cleaned. Our primary tech we learned was not certified by Allen. He worked for the music shop/dealer. The second is certified and worked for Allen for many years and broke off to make his own business.

Originally, the church had an Estey Organ. When renovations were going to be conducted, the pastor at the time (who knows nothing about music) decided that "it wasn't in good stewardship to pay to fix the pipe organ." The pipes and parts were sold for scrap and all we have left is the bench, it is now used for an altar in a children's Sunday School class. Then came the Allen. No one in the church was happy when the pipe organ was taken out and then replaced with a digital organ. People are still bitter. I am personally not a fan of Allen, or any digital instrument for that matter. I will say that they are ideal for smaller churches with a limited budget/space. You just can't beat the real thing!

Several years ago we added Antiphonals to the Allen. They were installed by our dealer's shop. The secondary (now primary) technician believes they weren't installed correctly as far as electrical work and were the cause for the damage. They are in the back of the church (built during the civil war, so very old and wiring etc are very... interesting..).

A pipe organ is closer in sight now that the swell is unusable.

[TheYoungOrganist]

being new, i did not see the last two or three comments! My church is located in East TN.