Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...

[NYCFarmboy]

http://cgi.--------/c1910s-TIN-CHURC...#ht_4348wt_926

Saw this on ebay tonight...a FLUE based Oboe....i'm guessing just a very keen/strident string rank?

Were that rank complete I'd buy it as I need something like that for a chapel organ I'm working on..but was wondering if anyone here has any experience witht his type of rank? How do they sound? thoughts?

[pipecutter]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...



Some examples are suprisingly good. They were often used as the only "reed" in small instruments that would likely have little exposure to regular organ maintenance or tuning. They were often short compass stops that didn't begin till tenor c (c13).These were strings with a lot of edge! Usually slotted, many examples had a flattening that ran a good way up the front of the pipe. The playing range was where they were at their best. The upper and lower octave tended to sound like the string that they were.

In later years, builders tended to use "synthetic" oboes for much the same effect. They took an 8' string and coupled it with a 2 2/3 (usually derived)mutation to get the oboe-like sound on the cheap.

[james]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...



Interesting info. I would just label it Oboe 8' regardless. An Oboe is my favorite solo stop as well as a good Trumpet. A Clainet is nice on larger organs even if it is dervied via mutations of flute tones.

I find the stop name of Gamba most unique. I guess it has ituses, but I just don't like the name. It ranks with the unusual stop names, but yet I have encounteredit on electronics a few times. I know it is a coarse string, but is there actually such a thing as a Diapason Gamba 8'? If so, I would like to know about it.

Thanks,

James

[soubasse32]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...



[quote user="Tenor Trumpet 8'"]I find the stop name of Gamba most unique. I guess it has ituses, but I just don't like the name.[/quote]Actually the term Gamba is not really that unusual - I'veseen it onmany instruments.

I much prefer the term Viola da Gamba;by itselfGamba signifies the word "leg" - a rather absurd name for an organ stop, isn't it? [:D]"Pulling" that stop could have an entirelydifferent meaning... [:P]

[pipecutter]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...

[quote user="Tenor Trumpet 8'"]


Interesting info. I would just label it Oboe 8' regardless. An Oboe is my favorite solo stop as well as a good Trumpet. A Clainet is nice on larger organs even if it is dervied via mutations of flute tones.

I[/quote]

I'm sure some builders might do just that. As an organist, it'shelpful to have the most accurate info on the drawknob you can get. If the stop is derived or synthesized, you need to know that. As a solo sound it might not be as important but when you start plaing it in chords it can make a huge difference. I would also want to know if a clarinet stop was a free reed for the same reason.

[james]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...

[quote user="soubasse32"]


[quote user="Tenor Trumpet 8'"]I find the stop name of Gamba most unique. I guess it has ituses, but I just don't like the name.[/quote]Actually the term Gamba is not really that unusual - I'veseen it onmany instruments.

I much prefer the term Viola da Gamba;by itselfGamba signifies the word "leg" - a rather absurd name for an organ stop, isn't it?

Yes, it sureis anabsurd name. I do remember the term Viola da Gamba which brings to mind a Cello. Maybe it comes from the Cello going down the leg to the floor. [:)]

[:D]"Pulling" that stop could have an entirelydifferent meaning... [:P]

[/quote]

Yes, it sure could have an entirely different meaning from trying to tell a big j o k e, or pulling something e l s e. [:P]

However, what about a Diapason Gamba 8'. A fake stop name or what would it be?

James

[soubasse32]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...

[quote user="Tenor Trumpet 8'"]Yes, it sureis anabsurd name. I do remember the term Viola da Gamba which brings to mind a Cello. Maybe it comes from the Cello going down the leg to the floor. [:)][/quote]"Leg" by itself is rather silly for an organ stop name ... but the term Viola da Gamba is rather interesting;this instrument (which was indeed aprecursor to the cello) was held between the legs. When organbuilders use the complete term itacknowledges the history of these early instruments. [8-|]


[quote user="Tenor Trumpet 8'"]However, what about a Diapason Gamba 8'. A fake stop name or what would it be?[/quote]I don't think I've ever heard of that term.Such a narrow-scaled Diapason is most likely to be called Geigen Diapason. There are also stops called Violin Diapason.

[pipecutter]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...



I was a bit wary of commenting on the properties of a "Diapason Gamba". I can't even imagine what that would entail. However, I have no doubt that someone would slap any ol' name on a stop control just for the sake of being inovative or different. So there probably is a Diapason Gamba out there somewhere.

Years ago I did some "after market" voicing work on an instrument of over 100 ranks. The original consultant (or maybe the organist) didn't want any stop names to appear more than once. I saw stop names that I had never seen before or since. Very confusing for a visiting musician or your local pipe beater! It just leads me back to my earlier statement that the engraving on the console needs to be informative and to the point.

[james]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...



I have heard and used both Violin Diapason 8' on some very nice Baldwin Church Organs, and I have used the Geigen Diapason 8' on some Wurlitzer Electronic organs which was very nice. Both were true sounding stops and served the purpose intended in that they were indeed a string Diapason.

Now, the Diapason Gamba 8' & Flute 4' mess I came in contact with was on the church Hammond presets on the lower manual actually the key E. I will say Hammond has its place in the music field and they are still used quite a bit. However, when it comes to making actual organ stops it fall so short in most instances. I made the comment one time that a Hammond making useful stop sounds as well as ensemble sounds numbers between 25-30. I think their labels on the false sounding presets were there to look impressive to some organist or a want to be organist. I found all the presets to be so closely related that the basic difference among most of them was only in volumce or very slight adjustments of certain drawbars which as we know are all flutes. Only a very fewslightlyresemble any useful sound from any organ be it pipe, reed, or electronic.

For an all Flute Organ, Gulbransen was my favorite choice in that it fuctioned more like an organ instead of a percussive machine with all kinds of mechanical action and those horrible intolerable key clicks. I have played Hammond in several churches where it fit in fairly well, but in one mainline denomination it was so out of place it was worse than horrible. It was even the poorest of installations I ever heard anywhere.

So, there I have fessed up about where that stop name came from, and I should have known it was something false anyhow being on a Hammond. So the Hammond Co. did indeed just make up a name right quick to look impressive with those flutes of various pitches just squealing along the best they could for what they were made to do. I have heard some decent music on a Hammond, but for a quality electric organ or electronic it is sorely lacking.

There was a few electronic organs that could serve churches quite well, and even Hammond did in some churches IF they had someone who knew how to play it properly. The various denominations as well as their style of music had an influence on the brand of organ they could afford. Often some were chosen by people who knew little of nothing about organs, and when it comes to Hammond the name sold many to people who couldn't hardly turn one on properly.

I do prefer useful stops with adequate names be it an all flute organ or one with the necessary variety.

BTW I do agree if a Clarinet is made up of flute pitches it should be noted on the stop tab, but that is unlikely in electronics. Sometimes you learn for yourself when playing full ensemble or even chords on a Clarinet or another reed stopmade up of flute pitches.

James

[Brandon Tuomikoski]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...



John.....

Did I just hear you say a Chapel organ???? Do tell!!! haha! Sounds very intriguing.

[NYCFarmboy]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...

Hi Brandon...yes....the Reuter opus 822 in my house came out of a little church that has since been replaced by a new church. The old original wood frame church has been preserved and will be used as a "chapel" and possibly for funerals, maybe a wedding...anyhow...perhaps may be used 3 to 4 times a year and be kept mainly as a "museum".


The Reuter 822 was replaced with an Allen Digital Toaster that has since been moved over to the new church (the new church is VERY nice).

The old church is now "organless"....and my garage is full of parts that I would like to be used but I dno't want to part with...so Trevor and myself are installing a small 4 to 5 rank unit organ in the old chamber. A very basic 16/8/4/2 unit Flute, 8/4 Diapason, 8/4 Gambe & Gambe Celeste and a 8' Dulciana....utilizing the old original 822 blower and POSSIBLY the original opus 822 console or more likely the HOltkamp console in my home ... thus this "new" chapel organ won't be finished until I get the Austin opus 500 console rebuilt over the winter.


Back on thread topic....this is why i was specifically interested in a Oboe Gambe...looking for a "reed like" tone but not a reed....because reeds DO require alot of care to keep in tune and playing....flues on the other hand can sit for months at a time and be playable again without any fuss...thus the "Chapel" organ I will put in will be "reedless".


I'll unitize 2 8' "reeds" out of the Gedeckt & Gambe...I'll have a Gedeckt 8' and 2 2/3' "Clarinet"...and a Gambe 8' & Gedeckt 2 2/3' "Orchestral Oboe" which will help make the organ more interesting tonally for some solo single note playing. (unitized ranks with derived mutations sound pretty yucky for chords).


But If I put in something like a Oboe Gambe then it be open to more types of playing. But I've never heard one of these ranks thus the post to get thoughts on this type of rank!

[james]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...



This is an interesting subject. NYC, have you considered at Tierce at 1 3/5' or even a Larigot 1 1/3' on the lower maual since you will have unit flute ransks? I learned that a fairly good Clarinet 8' solo stop can be made of Flutes 8' 2 2/3' and 1 3/5' then if you add a Flute 4' and 2' to this you can have a solo Trumpet 8'. I doubt either of these would be good in an ensemble or chords.

Your idea of an Oboe sounds better than one made up of Flutes such as Gulbransen did via 4' 2 2/3' and 2' However they were all flute organs for the most part of their line. I am sure many electronics followed traditions used by pipe builders for years.

It would be nice to have a reedless pipe organ, and I remember reading where The Estey Company was noted for making these when they were in the pipe organ business.

James

[Mondochuck]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...



My little 7 rank tracker has a 8' Gamba rank. Thepipes of this rankare maked Viola da Gamba. It's a very nice sounding string rank.

[james]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...



Most interesting! What are the seven ranks?Is ita two manual organ?

I have played on one in town that has six ranks with a good number of stops, but the only reed is a Hautboy at 8', 4', on both manuals. It is a true reed. The ranks, are Principal, Gemshorn, Gemshorn Celeste, Flute, Oboe, and some small ranksof Mixtures. I will have to check to see if my memory is serving me right on this matter. It is very nice for what it has, but it seems so many of the stops are duplicated since it is so unified.

James

[jordan312]

Re: Oboe Gamba...NON-reed Reed ranks (i.e. an Oboe Gamba etc)...



John,

I have 21 notes of an Estey, reedless oboe. These are also Haskelled pipes (considerably shorter than 8' at the low C.) I've not been able to hear them on a chest, but when blown they do have the tonal structure of an oboe, without a lot of "cutting" character. Like a mellow yellow oboe.

Gary